Krash Out
Krash Out with the Kash Zaddy himself ;)
Krash Out
Tortoises, TV, and Tangents (Ep. 2)
What starts as a chaotic college memory and a Gossip Girl tangent turns into a full-on, five-year experiment in building a proper home for two Aldabra tortoises. We go deep into the real work behind giant-tortoise care: why humidity beats hype for preventing pyramiding, how exercise ramps change growth and mobility, and where substrate advice collides with reality when you’re ordering a thousand pounds of bark by freight. If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to evolve from a cute starter setup to a habitat that respects biology, this one maps the terrain.
We trace the build from a humble wood box to a basement greenhouse tent, then scale up to a 10x10 microclimate with plants, heat, and carefully managed humidity. Along the way, we talk materials that mold, plastics that hold, and the subtle ways design choices show up in shell health years later. The garage chapter brings insulation, stall mats, ramps with rungs for traction, and a candid look at cleaning what no one wants to talk about: drains, shop-vacs, and odor control for animals that drink and, well, output like champs. Diet gets the same treatment—orchard grass hay as a staple, grass-based pellets for balance, and why alfalfa and sugar-forward treats don’t fit a tortoise gut built for fiber.
Beyond the build, we zoom out to the ecology: tortoises as ecosystem engineers, seed spreaders, and unintentional accomplices in invasive fruit takeovers. We share what zoos get right, where myths persist, and why first-hand data from keepers can be a quiet antidote to confident, outdated advice. It’s hands-on, sometimes messy, and always honest—because long-lived animals deserve long-view thinking.
If you love smart husbandry, DIY habitat design, and stories that admit the struggle, hit follow, share this with a fellow reptile nerd, and leave a review with your biggest tortoise-care question. Your feedback shapes the next build—and the next episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Hope y'all are doing swell. Uh it's been another day, another dollar, another week back in the books. Um, I know you missed me. Uh you know you love me. XOXO. Joe, shout out Gossip Girl. What a show. For real, actually, honestly. I guess well, gossip girl. Spoiler. That was that was the the Dan? Is that the character's character name? The guy who plays the creepy dude from you. I forget the actor's name. Yeah. Dan was I don't know. That guy. Honestly, that checks out. Maybe maybe it's the same character. Because he wasn't, you know, creepy like that in the show. Uh in in Gossip Girl. But he definitely had to be, you know, honing those stalker skills that he was, you know, on full putting on full display in the U Shelf. He was getting the juice on everyone in Gossip Girl. What a show though, I guess. Yeah. How that I got definitely pretty hooked onto that show in college. Uh, I guess to throw it way back my freshman year of college. Uh essentially ended up living in a like a 12-person suite with mostly chicks. Uh so how it was working, it was like a brand new dorm that year. It was like a pretty nice building that just opened on the campus. Uh, but for whatever reason that year, um none of the people wanted to pull up to that house. It was like a thing, I guess, at the the first two weeks of class, or even before, I forget exactly how the timing worked. It's like they do this thing. They had this sort of like Harry Potter type house system. There's all these different houses that you could live in, like sort of like a diet frat. Uh, and then they also had this brand new house or just like dorm. It wasn't the same house type thing. This is not that important. Uh, but basically, I ended up in this house and just like assigned to live with like a bunch of random chicks. It was like me and a few dudes that we got to be friends with. I think it was like me and two other dudes, and then like nine chicks, like a total of 12 girls in the suite. It was it was a cool time. We all got along, ended up being pretty good vibes. But uh, so we got like the it was like everyone had their own kind of like little individual bedrooms, and there's like a big common area where it's like a table and like a few bathrooms and like this middle island sort of thing. I don't know. This is actually decent setup, but we had a couch, and then we ended up all kind of chipping in and bought a big ass TV that we went and picked up. Um, and I think me and the bros were kind of more excited to watch whatever sports, whatnot. And then like early on one of the nights, one the girls had started playing Gossip Girl for the first time, which I had no idea what it was. I'd never seen it. Um and I walked and like, what the hell is this? Like, you know, stereotypical like guy, like, what the fuck? Why you why you playing this shit? I don't want to watch this. But then like after five minutes, I was like, you know, chewing popcorn and just eating that shit up. And then yeah, we got in the routine of watching that shit every night. It was it was a good vibe. I was really, I really got on like a uh a Chuck Bass type beat, if you know, you know, um, where well I don't know if I was, but I don't know. Maybe had a little bit of inspiration. I like ended up getting some you know bootleg scotch that I would legit just sit on this big ass bean bag sipping that, watching Gossip Girl like most nights, freshman year. Honestly, what a vibe. Take me back. But I mean, I don't know how far we got into it, but I was hooked and like the school year ended, and we were like maybe a few seasons in. We we made a good chunk of it, but I think most of the other people like that hadn't seen it before just kind of forgot about it, but you know, I had to know what happened. Also, I had to see more of uh um Serena, whatever. Young Fine Blake Lively. Um Good Vibe. Where was I gone with that? Um, just a good show, I guess. That's how I ended up watching it. And I had to had to see it through, and then I guess he had the grand reveal spoiler at the end, just the dude Dan from you, and then he continued on for some creepy shit. I don't there's like a new season of that out. I haven't seen that. I need to I think I started it, but never got through it. That show some like peak secondhand like cringe trying to watch it, you know, like the scenes where he's like, you know, going ham on his ham in the bushes, and that's th those were some horrendous scenes to watch. That's crazy. I wanna know who the wrote the script for that, like who came up with that? And uh honestly, like when you're I don't know how acting works when you take a role, like how do you read that scene like yo sign me up? Ain't nobody gonna give themselves carpal tunnel in the bushes like your boy, but I guess he did. And he I mean it's a good show. It's definitely it's definitely gets you hooked. So I guess I gotta watch that. Anywho, that was a tangent. Um last time, what do we talk about? Oh yeah, we talked about some, I think uh snapping turtle tanks, I guess could continue on a similar vibe. Um another type of critter crib that I've spent a lot of time setting up for. I don't know if I got into this, but um, so in the middle of kind of continuing off the undergrad stuff, I guess it was in the middle of my sophomore year, so I guess you know, just a few short months after the year of the gossip girl grind was my sophomore year, and that was 2020. So in the middle of that, that's when all the COVID shit started to go down. Um and then yeah, eventually halfway through the year, ended up getting uh everyone got kicked off campus, had to go home. Um for much longer than we thought initially. I mean, I remember it's not a crazy time thinking back, like being in lectures and then seeing like all these other schools shutting down on on all like basically all over the country. And it's like, are we gonna what's what's I mean that whole pandemic was a wild ride. But yeah, I eventually ended up back home doing Zoom classes and in the basement with at home with my parents and the little sister, and it was it was a trip, but I I definitely kept myself entertained. Some people I mean, I think some people like stayed in the area, ended up getting like renting Airbnbs for the time. That's just expensive, and I was just chilling up at home. But I definitely kept myself entertained as I guess to deal with, you know, being locked up with the fam. Uh one of the the primary projects was uh that I I guess I guess I didn't import them, but the guy I think he does import them. Long story short, I acquired a pair of hatchling uh baby Aldabra tortoises, which are like the second biggest tortoise species in the world. I mean, they're basically, I think they're like technically a little bit smaller than Galapagos, but kind of like the same difference. Like most people wouldn't be able to tell. I mean, you'd have to kind of know your your your torts to know the difference. I guess the main thing is they got the Galapagos ones got kind of a stumpy nose. And these guys got a little bit more pointy. Um and these guys also like the Aldabras, relative to Galapagos, as they get along, they like I mean, they I don't know if they necessarily play, but they they chill and they're cruise, they're they're tight with their homies. Whereas I think the Galapagos ones, they they're scrappy motherfuckers. They'll like I've seen I've seen the dude, I think he had like I guess I've watched way too many videos of all sorts of like reptiles and exotic pets. I think this motherfucker had a pair of Galapagos tortoises in Alaska that he kept them. I mean, obviously had to keep them indoors, those shits are not surviving outside. They could make, you know, I guess an ocean journey float into their island to get started, but that's the life of a pirate much easier than the life of an Eskimo, especially when you uh don't have you're not exothermic, hot blooded, whatever. Uh, but this guy had them, and I was like seeing his videos, and they weren't that big, and these guys were already scraping, they were throwing hands, just like ah, chomping at each other, chomping at the bit, trying to trying to throw down a cert dominance. I don't really know how these conflicts resolve. Like they're beefy as shit, and they just get a beak. I mean, like, they're their bite and beak are strong, they could take your finger off, but I feel like those guys couldn't really like fuck each other up too much. I feel like someone's just gotta go run away, which you can't really do, I guess, when you're pinned up together. But I don't know like what the worst damage they could do to each other is. There are like these African silkado ones that are like spur thigh tortoises, but those ones are like they got some they got some gear, they they're pulling up with the s the stick, they got that strap on them. They they're never caught lacking. Like the males got this like big like chest spike, and they just like ram each other with it. So those ones, if especially, I mean, I guess you just don't want anything fighting that you're taking care of, you know, and you, you know, providing a nice little little cozy crib for them to thrive and relax in their their bougie habitat, um, ideally. But those ones, especially if they scrap, like a lot of times I kill them because they'll like scab the other, like they'll get in their the whatever little, like I guess like they find the chink in their armor, like the their necks and whatever, where they're they have like skin and not the big shell and they just get like stabbed and eventually just get infected and die. So those guys, those guys are real, real scrappy. I think, I mean, they're cool tortoises. Uh, I think they're just like kind of a there's a lot you gotta deal with. I think they also like dig huge burrows, those sulcato ones. Uh I think they're pretty common. I think it's because they're like they're prolific egg layers. They're they're like a Nick Cannon turtle. Like, I think the moms can they lay like they can lay up to like 50 eggs and they can do it like several times a year. So they're honestly pretty cheap and they come off as like these cute little like ping pong balls, but they can grow to be like 100, 200 pounds if it's like a big boy. Uh and so I think a lot of people, so because they're cheap and they're little and cute, people get them and then like all of a sudden become this big old beast, and people are like, what the fuck am I dealing with now? So uh a lot of times they're not set up to deal with it, so people have to give them up and shit, so that's sad. Uh so be warned if you're looking at those, those things do not stay little despite how cute and tiny they are when they start out. And those things don't probably don't get more than one unless you've got like you're certain you get shoddies, but I don't think you can tell until they're older. At least, so I have two Aldabras, and I think you can't really tell like how big, at least from what I've read, but um I think the consensus is that these guys you can't maybe around 10 they might start to show signs, 10 years old, like that um some sexual dimorphisms characteristics they'll start looking a little different or whatever, however you put it. Uh where the males get bigger. Um I think the males got like more of one of the things that get I mean they're just bigger in general, and I think maybe the other they maybe have a bigger tail. And I think the other thing is they get like a concave belly, so they can, you know, get on top of the shoddy shell, they can fit up on there and do their business. So I think that's some of the things. I think there's like you can do these things where you gotta like take them to a special like turtle vet where they do some sort of like procedure, they like stick a I don't know, some sort of pro up their ass, or they're they're cloaker for the technical term. They got this I don't entirely know what the anatomy of it is, but this is like some hole in their tail where everything comes out, they do on their business. Actually, though it's kind of terrifying if you ever see videos of turtle dicks that um it's like I don't know, it looks like some alien thing that just starts like crawling out of their tail that I guess the males got and then it just goes up into the females. So I guess that's the other thing you could see if they happen to, you know, flash you stick their dick out, then you'd know. I have not seen anything yet with my guys, so I don't I don't know if I got a male or a female or or one of each a pair. I mean, it'd be sick if I had a male and a female, and then eventually uh could have some little babies in a long time. I mean, uh I think they're about five years old now, I reckon. Don't exactly know, because I don't think this guy hatched them. I got them from this place in Florida who imports them, I believe, from the St. Shale Islands, where they where they uh were born and raised, their natural home. I don't know how that works. There's like a farm where they just ship them out. Uh also there's one of the differences between them and the Galapagos guys, they're like a little bit more common. They're like one-tiered, like not as protected on the endangered spectrum, however that works. So there's like less regulation of acquiring them. Um, so it's not as many barriers apart from the cost and having to deal with these tortoises that you're gonna live fucking forever and get fucking giant. The I think the big boys can be four or five hundred pounds, and a big girl can be two hundred, but maybe it's more like 100, 200 in there. So that's that's a lot of turt tortoise. Um and yeah, these things are gonna be like multi-generational family project. I don't I mean, I think they don't really know how long they live, just long as shit. I think the oldest one is I don't know the island, somewhere in the Caribbean or something. Is it like St. Lucia, one of those saints, some French colony or Brit? I don't know. One of the one of the many colony type islands, I feel like one of those vibes. I think his the boy's name is Jonathan. Something like that. Look it up. Um But I think I mean he's I think at this point he cracked 190. And so they but they only know he's at least 190. They have like documentation back only that far, so that's like a minimum. It could be older. But that's fucking 200 years. Like, how many how many generations would that even be? Like, say you got like if you haven't kids like trying to be like average, say at like 30, I don't know what time. That's like that's at least six goddamn generations. So it's grandkids, great-grandkids, great-great-great-grandkids, I don't know. Several layers of great grandkids that these things could be still kicking around for. So it's kind of the cool thing when you get these little guys and like, yo, these guys are gonna be around for a long ass time. They were just like little, I don't know, specks in their clock. That's kind of like some of those like big ass redwood trees, but maybe not quite so much if you planted one of those. Um but they were like one of the this just in general, a giant tortoise was something like I kind of like always wanted just little, and then I was like chilling at home in the pandemic. I don't really know how I came to this decision. Like many of the decisions I come to, they're all a little bit spontaneous and a little bit reckless, but just kind of full spend, fully commit to these crazy things. But it's it's a good vibe. Uh I started off acquiring one. A lot of things I do, I end up just, you know, well, it's not even dipping my toe in, it's still kind of jumping fully in it. I'm like, I got one, he's a cute little guy. Like, I was like, this guy that I buy them from, this farm in Florida, he's got like all these YouTube videos of all the tortoises he's got, and I was like watching all of them, trying to find one to pick out, and I found one that I liked, the cute little round shell. He's like such a tiny little guy that like fits in your hand. I think he was like like half a pound when I got him. Shipped him from FedEx. It was like overnight shipping, but this was also this was honestly one of the peak stresses of my life, you know, you know, like expecting father, waiting for your child to be delivered, but via FedEx, um, and like trying to get to the FedEx uh whatever like center. It was like an hour drive from my hometown. Um, because like wanted to pick it up from there rather than having it delivered, so the turtle never run around in the box in the hot car all day. But this was peak uh supply chain and shipping fuckery because of the pandemic. And long story short, the first day, homie didn't make it, did not get to the FedEx thing. So I was like, there's no updates I'm like spam in, check in, refresh, refresh, refresh on the fucking FedEx thing. Like, where's my baby? Um I want my little slat. Um it didn't come, and I was like calling the guy on from the farm, like, yo, where's this where's my little slime at? I need him. Why ain't he here yet? And I mean the guy said basically, uh, yeah, there's been FedEx has been lacking lately, and he'll probably be there tomorrow. And I was like stressing. I remember like going to this little diner. Uh my mom came with me to pick this guy up, and we were like kind of sat there for a few hours, then he stressed ate. Like, I feel like a bunch of like, I don't know, like pancakes at this diner, and I'm like just heart rate just what's happening. Anywho, um come next day, he did he didn't make it. It was delivered, and I like panicked, opened him up, and he seemed all good. I bought him like a box of like spring mix from the grocery store nearby, so like trying to get him to eat right away and whatnot, and he was a grubbin', got him and had him in like a little like ice cream pail in my lap, and my mom drove home while I was just like staring at this little guy. He's so cute. Um, but yeah, he liked the spring mix right when he got there. So that's that's kind of what they ate for a while. Although I think if you're doing it, spring mix is good, but it's most of them have kale, which I think is not great for tortoises because it can do something, it like fucks up with how they absorb calcium, so then that can cause them shell problems. He they definitely got some. I tried to limit it, and I did also give them like helicalcium supplements, and things turned out well, so I think it was not not always lost. They've graduated from the spring mix to hay, which is also much cheaper, even though they're bigger now. But so I had them for I don't know how long it was before I pulled the trigger out of there, and I was like, he's so cute, I want him to have a friend, and repeated that process like a month or two later, end of the summer, and that's how I ended up with two. I started off with them, like I didn't really know how there'd be just many question marks, I guess, in just dealing with this, like these baby giant tortoises that live on a tropical island, and that's not where they were going to. That's not where their their new destination, new uh home was going to be located. So it was kind of I had a lot of uh planning to do and figuring out what the how the hell I was gonna you know keep these guys cozy and comfy. It started off. I bought this like I want to say, I think it was like a two by four foot like raised like garden bed, like it's just like a basically a wood box on like still stuff normally fill in dirt and throw some flowers in there. Um and then uh like put stuff like reptile carpet on that and built them like a little hidey hole and put some lamps in there and he'd walk out, eat some the grass, and then drink some water from a little dish and then crawl back for the night. I think he was kind of tweaking the first few days, getting settled. Uh and then I got a second one. Um and then I was like, this is I feel like they need a little more room. I debated getting another, but then they kept growing pretty quick. Like I would give them their little baths every day. And then I I'd like been doing more research into like how to take care of them. Uh and I guess the biggest thing that was like coming across and kind of concerned about was like because there's like I guess just not even the biggest thing, there's just so many concerns because these little guys grow so fast, they gotta make sure they have the right nutrients so their shells grow big and strong and healthy, they gotta eat their veggies, so you know this they stay feel good and all that. Um, but they also like apart from just like nutrient deficiencies, there's this thing called pyramiding where they get these like kind of like spiky shells, it looks a little bit funky. And like there's people saying all sorts of shit online, unlike all sorts of all this is just the most common thing is that the people say it's uh like just improper nutrition or like lack of like the proper whatever diet. And honestly, I've even been to a few zoos as of late, all over in different places, and heard them say the same bullshit. Like I mean, there's some things that can be caused by that, but I don't think so. The most compelling thing to me was like some guy in Arizona where he did like kind of like a proper like scientific sort of study where he'd like he raised some other type of small tortoise and kind of talked about raising them in like a humid tent while they're little versus not was like the the kind of like the one defining thing that he noticed. Like if he just had some guys chilling out in a little pen in the Arizona desert with like negative whatever percent humidity, well, I don't think that's possible, but I don't even know what that means. You just like suck the moisture out of you if you're like I don't know, I don't know what do that. Um shoddy as that would, but I don't know what a physical environment would. Anywho, um but if you put them in like kind of like a like a hot box but humid, like kind of like a little sauna, but not not sauna heat, uh they came out nice and round and shiny smooth. And then I kind of like dug more to like seeing some tortoises like raised in different spots, like especially these big ones, like someone that had been raised up in Cali, out and like where it's pretty dry too, in some like the deserty areas there. Like the big ones had kind of all sorts of like bumpy shells not looking so nice. Like, I don't know that there's necessarily like the huge event developmental problems with like that, if that kind of like arises, like if it is bad for their health. Although I think it's not great if it's extreme because like I I'm pretty sure that their like spine is like kind of like built into their shell, so it's like you're just like kind of giving them scoliosis if you don't get them set up right, especially when they're little and growing so fast. So it's kind of like a lot of variables to keep track of uh to make sure they they stay, you know, stay good, stay healthy. And another thing too is like proper exercise, having like space to walk around because they grow so fast. Like I think it's seen, well, not like little ones, but I think it's seen some like rescue videos of like people that had them. Like there's this guy that I watched, he's got it's pretty interesting. I think he's like some whatever, like heir to like billions of some some fortune of uh like a tree trimming service or something like that that's like kind of national, maybe international. And bros just like down in Florida, maybe something from Pennsylvania, but just like building like hella crocodile enclosures. And I'm like, I was like always so jealous of this guy. But I think he must have had a homie from like Michigan where he had one of there. And this poor tortoise like grew up there. He definitely had a funky shell, but also I think didn't have room to move around. So like when they're growing that fast and not moving so much, they can grow like too big uh or like faster than their leg muscles develop, so they just kind of like become like kind of like sort of immobile, they're not strong enough. So I mean I think he'd been able to rehab this guy away. So I don't I don't know how he's doing now. I hope he's thriving. I think the tortoise's name is crushed. So I hope you you stand in there, crush, stay strong, you know, those legs move and go forward as a gump on them. I think forest, I don't know if that's appropriate. I've actually never watched Forrest Gump. I think I maybe, I think it played when I was on a bus on a band trip at one point, but I'm pretty sure I either fell asleep or that was maybe a time when I was like binge watching The Walking Dead on like my phone, because I just got into that at that point. Uh besides the point. Um, anyways, so with all this in mind and the fact that these fuckers were growing pretty quick, I was like, okay, how do we do this? What's the game plan? Uh what I settled on was I bought this like four by eight foot, ended up trying to figure out what would uh hold some warmth and humidity in my basement without, you know, like leaking out and like getting a moldy ass house and getting my ass beat by my parents. I settled on these uh greenhouse tents that I think are you know specifically designed for growing some gaja in your basement. Uh and I ended up copping like a four by eight foot one of those, and that uh kind of ended up being their enclosure for not nearly as long as I was hoping it would last. Uh, but in there I built like kind of like some terrain, like a hill and valley. They had to like go downhill and uphill to go to their food and then go back to their hiding hole where they'd sleep. So I was making sure they got their steps in, those legs were getting strong, they're doing their their hill repeats. Uh and they were they're moving around much more in there, but they were they're growing quick. At that same time, I also got into like growing all sorts of like exotic plants and like kind of gardening, and then I kind of wanted to grow some, you know, go full, like holistic farm on them, go kind of Amish. I wanted to grow them their own food, so I bought like a banana plant and some hibiscus plants because they like hibiscus flowers and banana leaves, and I started growing those in there. Um, and a lot of other just random plants that I like acquired that were kind of flooding my basement, and there's like so many lights. My basement turned into actually kind of a tropical jungle. It looked real sus, especially if we had people over like this big tent with like all these like purple grow lights around and all these leaves everywhere. It was it was kind of interesting, and then had like you see this mist coming because I bought a humidifier to you know keep it nice and uh humid in there so it can grow nice and smooth. And honestly, all went pretty swimmingly, a little bit too swimmingly, because it kept growing so fast. I'm like, shit, it was I don't even know if they made it a year in that. I hoped they would, but I don't like I hoped it would be longer than that. But yeah, I think I think it was maybe a year. Because from then I was like, okay, what's next? And then it went to a bigger grotten, basically the biggest one that they would sell, I think. Uh, it was yeah, I think I think 10 by 10 foot, and like took up like basically a good chunk of my basement. Um, shout out to my mom for putting up with that, like sacrificing uh most of the basement for this turtle tent. Like she had some like sewing corner set up with like a table and her like sewing machine that I'll had to get eated around so I could set up this big ass 10 by 10 foot tent. Uh that was, you know, the new up tur up uh new and improved turtle crib, tortoise crib, their bougie, you know, swag pad when they were they were posted up. Uh but you know, things that like kept getting harder to like figure out how to build. Like it's it was kind of fun though, like trying to find like repurpose things to build. Because like some of the things I'd learned, I used mostly wood in plywood in their first little thing. So it was okay that they grew out of that pretty quick because uh I learned very quickly that especially like cheap wood that's not been treated or nothing to be kind of you know mold resistant, gets very moldy very quick in a human environment, especially if you got like baby tortoises that are pissing and shitting on it and stuff. Like even if I try to like squirt that shit with vinegar and whatnot, uh it it it like would clean it a little bit, but it was getting bad in there. Especially when it came time, came time to like disassemble that when they moved in. It was like, oh, this is horrendous. So good thing we got out of there. So the second iteration, I didn't upgrade to like building stuff out of some like PVC planks or HDPE. Is that what it is? High density polyethylene. I think so. I think that's what it is. One, I think, I don't know. I think I learned about some of these like things too in like chemical or chemistry classes or something. One of like the million things is like in the bunch of stuff. Or there's maybe like also like an LDP, like where it's low density. And like one is one's in like your milk jugs and your like newspaper condom reps, whatever you call those things that you know come in a newspaper on a rainy day. It's like just kind of like everywhere, but there's some high density ones and that they make some planks out of. I mean, it's not as sturdy as it was, kind of like wobbly. That's kind of one of the pains of it. So you need a little bit more of it, it's a little bit more expensive, but I didn't want it like mold everywhere. But so I'd get a bunch of that where I built this new platform that I had to work up or walk, kind of walk up to it, and then I bought some big ass like dog ramps for like old dogs and big dogs to get in out of cars. That was what they had to climb up to get to their food, so that was how they you know kept those legs strong, kept them booty games growing. Um, and that was kind of the general setup of it. I set up then bought there's so many like random things that I bought for this. I bought like this like kind of like temporary dog candles like fence to put around the edge of it to kind of like keep them if they started to ram the outside of it. I don't know if they would, but just to kind of have more of a a safeguard for if they're trying to bust out of there. But the other question was is like how what do I put on the floor of the substrate of the thing? Like, there's lots of like kind of opinions on what the best thing was. Some people said like coconut moss or no, coconut coir, co I don't know, coar, C-O-I-R something what it's spelled. It's like co- I don't know what it is. I don't know what part of coconut it is. Some people said that, but it seems like it got pretty mus moldy pretty quick, and uh it'd be expensive because I had like a lot of square footage like in total, like I had probably like maybe push in at least a hundred, because I mean that was the the footprint of the the the greenhouse tent that I bought. Um, but then there's like a second level where they ate their food, so potentially over a hundred square feet of stuff to like cover. And I was kind of doing all sorts of research. Um, you can buy wood chips. So I learned lots of interesting things in this. Um and had some interesting phone calls with like distributors for like random mulches and stuff. But what I I guess kind of what people recommended the most, I don't know if it worked the greatest. I mean it worked, it did the trick, but is um fur bar, because that's one that they claimed it was absorbent. I Did not find that to be the case. And a lot of other emotions are cedar, but cedar has got some like things that are potentially toxic to tortoises. I don't know how much it would like actually in practice be an issue when it's just they're f like flooring. But I was just like super paranoid about my babies and like, well, if it's anything toxic, nah, get the fuck out of here. Miss me with that bullshit. But um it turns out in my area, like all the mulch that you can buy, like things like that, it was like all from like cedar wood, and there's like nothing. And like fur bark is kind of like you can buy it in these little bags at the at the pet store, but like the amount you're paying for like unit or whatever at that is like so goddamn like atrociously high. It's like 10 bucks for this little bag, and I probably need like at least a hundred bags. So that's like a rack just for like a one thin layer on this, and like that's not gonna that's gonna be changed out here and there. So I was like, this is not great. I was like, is there any other ways to get like more of this stuff? And I ended up essentially having to like find out who the hell like the the source, you know, had to like call through, find the the dealer's supply to all these uh fur barks, which is like ended up being some like factory out in like Washington or Oregon. I don't know. I was on the phone like with a few different layers of people trying to trying to get to the supplier, and eventually came across them and you know set up a set up a drop uh where I ordered basically, I think it was uh they call it like a tote or like a half-tote, some weird shipping terms. If you if you're into you know shipping and receiving supply chain logistics, you maybe know the term, I don't remember. But it was like I think basically I ended up getting like a thousand pounds of this fur bark uh delivered across the country uh to my parents' house when I wasn't there because I was back actually at school at this point on campus. So that was a process, and I think this guy, which I think maybe got scammed a little bit, I don't think it was much different in price, but it's like saying, like, you gotta although I guess the one thing is okay, I'm I'm getting ahead of myself. You could either buy just like the raw fur bark, you know, and just throw it in there, or like what they do for like the pet shop stuff, they basically bake the shit out of it so it dries it out, and then I guess the other thing is it does maybe kill anything in it that could be bad. I don't know what would be in it, maybe just like molds and stuff. But he was like, Oh yeah, if you want it to be absorbent at all, you gotta get that shit baked. I'm like, okay, okay, say less. I mean, I'm already ordering whatever, a thousand pounds of it or whatever, pay the hundred bucks for the the baked goodies. So I did that. It still wasn't, I wouldn't call it absorbent at all. I don't know what the raw stuff was like, so I guess I can't say that it wasn't better, but it wasn't it wasn't super absorbent. But yeah, my parents, I don't think they quite realized the logistics of that. Actually, even going back further, just you know, a perfect example of my dad just totally zony about when I'm like yapping to him about the tortoises when I was kind of like talking to them, like if they'd be cool with that, because I knew I'd be like not be able to take care of them the whole time, like they'd probably be watching them for a while. And my mom is jiggy with it, she's gotten pretty into them. And my dad's like, sure, whatever, he was not obviously paying way less attention than I thought. Um, but like I kind of pictured them like these guys should be pretty easy. I definitely uh skipped uh bamboos with them because I think they are more work than I thought. I mean, I think the work, I mean, I don't know if it's gotten worse than they gotten huge. I mean, now they're 80 pounds, five years old. I mean, I got them maybe I think I don't think they're quite a year old and they were like half a pound, so there's like at one point they were growing so quick. I'm like, if they keep up with this rate, they'll be like a thousand pounds in a year, so it's gonna slow down or it has to, and luckily it has. Uh, but when they're like little, there's like kind of like a lot of like delicate care that they needed. Um well, I mean, I feel like at least just what I saw, it would be best. Like, I gave them like a warm bath every day. I remember my routine. It was like it was also like a two-hour time difference for my classes from where I was like living at home when it was like all these Zoom classes because of the pandemic. So my schedule, my sleep schedule was so fucked. Like, I would I mean, it's I can't really blame entirely the time difference. That was also just me like procrastinating shit and like the midnight deadlines being now like 2 or 3 a.m. Uh so for a good I remember the winter of that of whatever year that was. Must have been 21. I had this like accounting class every morning where I wake up, uh, make some espresso and sit with like this accounting class going on in the background of my iPad where I'm giving these baby tortoises uh baths and then giving them a buffet of lettuce and hibiscus flowers and banana leaves I've been growing. It was a it was a good vibe. I kind of like a lot of people bitched about all the the Zoom classes, and don't get me wrong, like I college is fun, and it would have a lot of fun to you know have more of that and like not miss out on like almost two years of it because of the pandemic, but I think I made the most of it and I don't I I'm not bitter about it. I guess at the time I knew well, I guess for getting the tourists as part of my reasoning then also was that yeah, one of them, and I'm like, these guys are so expensive. You buy adult ones, it's like outrageous, like buying like a damn car, some of them. And I was like, if I want an adult and don't want to have to do that, I might as well get it now when it's like orders of magnitude cheaper, but it's gonna take 20 years for it to grow. So if I want an adult one by the time I'm 40, I gotta start when I'm 20, you know? Math checks out. Uh, and that was, you know, part of the reason me pulling the trigger apart from aside from all the other, you know, random, you know, impulses that I have. Anywho, when I was pitching it to them, I was like, I I did tell them that these guys are gonna get big eventually. I mean, I don't I wasn't intentionally like lying like about how long it would take. They definitely grew quicker than I thought they would be. I would attribute that to me, you know, making sure they were you know treated right and eating good. But my dad obviously was not paying attention because maybe when I was talking about building the first greenhouse tent, the smaller one, he was like, What the fuck are you doing? I'm like, Well, they're gonna get big. And then I think that kind of like worried him. And he started doing research and like came back like an hour later, like, what the fuck? Like, realizing how like these are could be like several hundred-pound tortoises, like he was like deep breaths, like it was freaking out a little bit like, Well, they're here now. So I I don't I don't know if he learned his lesson. I he's still so I'm not gonna say shit, and he's like totally not paying attention, but that was pretty entertaining because my mom was like, What the fuck? You were you were there when we we talked about this, but it went in one ear and out the other, or just not in one ear at all. One of the two. So that was entertaining. Um But I guess the second thing where I don't know how I got on that. Oh, I think I was talking about ordering all the fur bark, like a thousand pounds of it, and it had to be like freight shipped across the country. So that shit um guess got delivered to them, but they just dropped it off, and we got kind of like a long, steep driveway on a hill, and they maybe brought it up partway, but then they had to figure out a way to like maneuver this thousand-pound bag of just like fur bark into the garage, so it's not just sitting out in the rain and with elements and whatnot. And I I don't know. I kind of wish I was there for that part. Unfortunately, I was not, and they had to deal with it. And I think I mean I think I good memories of it now. It's entertaining to look back. I don't think they were thrilled at the time because I think they were like had to buy several jacks because they were breaking them in some like, you know, like mechanic, whatever cart that were like whipping around the shop, you know, on your back. I think things like that to like try to slide this thousand pounds of bark into the garage. But they eventually got it in, and that was my I guess they they chipped in part for my Christmas presents, so I had this big ass just box of or it was like this big, I mean it was taller than me. It's like I don't know what the material is. It's not like canvas, but it kind of looks like that, but more like plasticky, kind of like a tarpy material bag of just wood in the garage. And that was that was Christmas, so I was I was happy with that. Um and then over that Christmas break, I whipped up this new um tortoise habitat, uh, got it all set up, put in some heat lights. I bought this is another thing I did that was maybe overkill head-s, but yeah, I just whatever do what I do. And yeah, I don't exactly know. Because I think my mom, I wasn't there to disassemble this. But what I did, I I wanted them to have a nice like hot rock to lay on in the middle of their tent. So I bought these like big pavers, they're pretty like heavy, large, at least a foot by a foot. And I bought like nine of them, and I still remember like my mom bitching because we I took her with me to go pick them up at like Minards or Home Depot, these like trying to go outside in the snow in their like garden section to like hold these freezing like pavers, and then I bought some like heavy-duty gorilla glue to like basically glue all of them together. So I made this pretty big. Okay, I had to do more than a foot by a foot because this thing was definitely more than three feet by three feet, I think. Well, I guess maybe it wasn't, but it was probably at least 100 pounds, and it was all glued together with this like heavy glue. So I don't quite know how that came apart. But that was where they they lounged and sat underneath the sun. That was their uh artificial beach to to vibe at. But it was successful. They I think they that one lasted for about two years and they thrived there. But the Ferber, I mean, it worked decent, but it was so dusty. If you deal with that stuff, like you gotta wear a mask. Like I remember opening the bag and like trying to like haul buckets of it to fill up this enclosure, and I I every time after that I had to use a mask, because I swear to God, for like a week I was blowing like red boogers from like the I thought I was like first of like, am I am I dying to I got cancer or something? But then I realized it was just like the dust from this that I just like inhaled. I had like a cough. I don't know. I had like I don't I don't know what to call it, but colong, but from fucking hauling basically baked fur bark down to dump in a tortoise tent. And even hauling it, it just like radiates this dust. It's kind of like just kind of permeates everywhere. And ended up on like the ceiling and the walls, and I had to like clean that up. And it's kind of a pain. I did not because yeah, if I left that, my ass would be grass. Uh my mom was wouldn't wasn't thrilled about that. I mean, I still didn't get everything. I I tried, but it's it's messy stuff, so be warned if you're ever you know in the in the business of dealing that dirty blow, and by that I mean the uh fur bark dust, nothing um illicit. I don't think I've broken any laws. Um but yeah, that was I did not continue to use that anything further on. So fast forward two years, and these guys are like 50 pounds, and these like this table they're on that HCPE. I mean, it's pretty sturdy going forward, but like it's kind of bending and warping as they walk up to go get their grub on, and they're like getting getting thicky thick, nice and round shells, perfectly beautiful and smooth because uh they've been getting their humid hot box, and you know, I I I pretty stand pretty confirmed or convinced of that the the fact that humidity helps uh give them nice round shells, especially going to more zoos and hearing them yap about it, and I'm like, I mean, I try to tell them. I even went to like the some uh this like reptile zoo in South Dakota at one point, and they had some like little baby ones, and I'm like, oh, these are so cute. How how old are these guys? They're like they're five years old, and I'm like, ain't no way. Because they were like maybe like this big, and I feel like my guys were like that big after a year. So I don't I mean, I don't know that it's I feel like I may have seen some things. I don't know what how good the research is on to like if there's problems in growing so fast, if that like is necessarily bad. I mean, I think I don't really know. Like, I'm trying to think scientifically if there are like some weird things that could go wrong. I like it would be one it's like different if it were like if they're eating shitty food, then yeah, it ain't great if they're just eating like bacon and getting, you know, picking out like that. But I was trying to give them good greens and give them all their supplements so they had a a balanced diet, because there's all sorts of like different minerals and stuff that are good for them and things you gotta watch out for and try to give them like occasional like veggies and flowers and whatnot, at least the ones that are healthy for them. I don't know. There's like websites where I could check and see what's safe and go off that because it's weird things that are safe for them are not, even all animals, like what foods, like some things. I feel like there's some pretty flower that that's like really poisonous to dogs, and that made me paranoid realizing that. Is it rhododendron? I don't know. Something like that. I don't know if it's the right one, but I feel like is it a flower? I don't know. This sounds kind of it sounds like I don't even know, like a Game of Thrones family or something, or a monster, or I don't know, but trying to basically make sure that you write. And I think as long as they're getting good, hopefully that doesn't fuck them up. I know that like when I've been shopping around, well, I'm not really shopping, just kind of browsing, you know, looking at these random reptiles for sale websites for fun, uh, just seeing what stuff is. Like I've seen some things where people they say. I think although like they grow faster, maybe look like they're sexually mature, some of like the big turtles they're maybe like not ready to mate, and like some of those people like get thrown off by that to like buy a big tortoise, but it's been grown over here in the States where it ate well, and uh people think it's gonna have babies, but it's like too young yet. And so I think maybe when they're grown a little bit more wild on their home island where they're just kind of you know really on island time, just vibe and sitting in the sun, maybe not eating as much. They maybe by the time they get the to like a bigger size, they're like older and maybe more developed, whatever, whatever they gotta get going in their their system, their their egg-laying engine gets running. Um But I don't I don't know. Hopefully they're hopefully I didn't fuck them up by well, I I mean I don't know. I they had good food. I don't know if I wanted to starve them, but I gave them, you know, fresh food every day and some some of these fancy little turtle pellets that's good for them, and it's apparently like just basically ground-up grass made into a pellet, and they seem to be good. Um But these guys at this like uh reptile garden, they're pretty little, and they told me they're five years old, and now that's insane. Maybe we should go back sometime and be like see how big they are now. I think one of the they have some they have big ones there too, and I think even some of their big ones maybe came from the same guy that I bought these little babies from. I don't know. But it's always interesting to me that some of the shit that like people at the digital tell me, and I'm like, Cap, ain't no way, but like I mean I kind of I mean I I don't feel like being like the know what I'll be like yo you trippin' because I mean I feel like a lot of these people are maybe I mean I feel like there's just enough out there, but some of us just like not super like uh formally known because like there's not uh probably like a whole lot of research into optimal tortoise care tactics and things like that. And I'm not saying I'm doing things perfectly either, but definitely been in some interesting things I've seen. And I don't know. I just like to make sure my things are going right. Because I've seen some that even their habitats, I'm like kind of sad, kind of bum. Like I mean, they're not horrible. You could do better. Although some of them seem pretty decent, and like some of them, it is fun to go to the zoos to get some ideas of how to set them up better, um, especially for like bigger ones. I think I hopefully uh so I've I'll get into it. I made a second enclosure after the the bigger tent that they're in now, and that's I don't think it's it's not permanent, but hopefully there's only gonna be one more, and now I've kind of figured out more from this second iteration, or I guess whatever, third, fourth, I don't know, iteration of like what I need for the like final crib as indoors. I mean, ideally you can have more outdoor time for them. I wanted to have them. I mean, I want them outdoors, but not when they were like so little because there's all sorts of stuff. At least you have to be like kind of constantly supervised on them. And I think for a while, like the yard be getting sprayed for like maybe like bugs and weeds, and I was like, I don't know if I want them crawling in that. And I kind of want to, you know, let it, you know, air out for a year or two. So it's not been getting treated anymore. But now that they're a little bit bigger and more robust and not uh like can't give I mean, although there's probably still plenty that could fuck them up, but less likely. I mean it still wants them like kind of enclosed, but it couldn't be like a squirrel or like uh I mean honestly a squirrel probably could because they're not fast, but I feel like they'd probably leave them alone. But maybe I don't even know what birds, I mean like an eagle, but I don't really know. Like I guess like if something was determined, it could definitely hurt them because they're they're not like quick. They do move quicker than you think, though. When they want to move, they get to hustling and bustling for real. Especially if you got some like uh green goods, you got some cags for them and they know it. Um, especially now that they're older. When they're little, they're like pretty skittish. And uh like, well, especially one of them was like he's a kind of more chill, and then like the the second one, he was way more skittish, and like when he's little, he'd like be running in place like too fast, like he would go nowhere because he's just like spamming his legs and they like weren't going anywhere, just like his tires were spinning basically. I always felt bad for him. He's he's still more skittish, but as they've gotten bigger, they've gotten way more interactive, so that's kind of fun. And definitely it seems true still that these guys uh get along more. I mean, maybe they're both girls and that's why, but they it is cute, they just sometimes like lay nose to nose, bump into nose, have their their morning chats or they're grabbing together. It's cute they never fight about that or nothing, never snap at each other, fight, they're not trying to get the smoke or assert dominance, I don't think. But yeah, hopefully uh they'll get some outdoor spaces. So I'm I'm going all over the place. But after I guess two years in that bigger tent, they were yeah, I was really pushing it and had to figure out what's next. Um they didn't make bigger tents, and I figured I need like something more serious of first setup going. So uh luckily we got them out of the basement and into a heated garage. Um, because they they need somewhere indoors still because you know they these tropical boys ain't gonna handle uh a Midwest winter. Um but luckily we have a heated garage, and my parents were willing to sacrifice a chunk of it. So we ended up having, I guess I think it's maybe one of the guys that helped originally build the house that they had that they kind of kept in touch with, who's I don't know if he likes heat, I don't think he full-time just construction, but uh got him on the line and see if he'd help out because this was this was beyond like they're getting to the size where I probably need something, someone who knows more than uh some actual construction skills. I mean, I'd really learn a lot, but stuff with a bit more structural stability in terms of actually building like an entire like insulated wall in the garage because uh we penned off basically half of it with like a full whatever wall to fucking not floor to wall, uh ceiling. Floor to ceiling, that's what it's called. Uh walled and insulated that in the the the half of the garage with the heater so we could have that warmed up and also get it kind of humid in there. Uh kept that humid, also, no more humidifier anymore, because I don't think it needs to be as humid. I mean, if it would have kept it as humid, I kind of aimed for like 80% in their like Ted their crims before. But now they're grown slower, and I feel like it's I mean, well, I just can't get them that humid without making the whole goddamn house uh a mold house. But I also feel like they're probably a little bit less sensitive to the humidity now that they're bigger and stronger. But the humidity now comes from the big old Godzilla tank, uh, the snapping turtle. But so I had this guy come uh help build this big like Florida wall ceiling, Florida, Florida wall ceiling, Florida ceiling wall. There we go, there we go. Uh and and then also like a big old like walk-around ramp up so they continue to get their exercise, get their steps in, uh, keep some buff legs. They really got elephant-like legs. I don't know if it's like a term elephantine legs, but like it looks like an elephant. It's like the structure of it. They got like a pad, and it's like kind of big round and like little like claws. And speaking of claws, they're kind of a bitch to like trim and they're getting long. Maybe if you had them like more of like a rocky terrain, like natural, they'd kind of file down more. But as they're getting bigger and strong, like just big and thick, it's like harder to cut and kind of a pain. But they're kind of fairing, it's been decent. Like you can use like a dog clipper at least for the time being, but I don't it's getting to the point where I don't know if that's strong enough or big enough. So I don't know. Like, I think some people use Dremels, but I don't I feel like it'd be hard to get them to stand still, and a Dremel takes a while. Maybe if you get like a super turbo Dremel sandler that you can do it, you just gotta be careful. But I don't know how you get them to sit still enough. Because like at least the clipping thing, you kind of get in there and just like snap it off and hope you don't like hit the hit the quick. Is that the part that bleeds? I think it's called the quick. It's something weird. Like it doesn't make sense. Why is it called that? You you went too too far and hit the I don't know. I don't know. But um so basically got a big ass plywood thing or like ramp into a big feeding platform. And basically it built like a mini deck in the middle of the garage, because luckily the ceilings are fairly tall. I mean, I don't think I can fully stand up on it, but also give them more like you know, square footage to walk around and like walk up this big ramp, and there's room for the bulk to go up it, at least for the time being. You know, maybe I mean if they're full grown, though. I mean I think the one could go up at a time, but that's the that's the problem. It's because they're big, thick, and round, and there's two of them. It's kind of hard to build something big enough for them. But hopefully this lasts a while. It's been going on two two years, maybe only one year, but it's doing good, and they're growth slowly down, so that's good. But I moved on from the fur barks as a pain, and I need even more for this because I actually have no idea how much square footage this is. But I ended up well, first of all, like sealed the concrete because they're pissed, they piss a lot and it's stinky. Because I really just chug water and you know, just fully empty what they drink. It's kind of a pain. So I whatever uh got the floor sealed with concrete to maybe help for later on. If you've been pissed down by turtles and soaking that up for years, you might just have like permanently stank concrete. And I was trying to avoid that uh for my parents' like and then I like bought I don't even know, like a shit ton of tarp. I don't even know how much. I guess I try to find a bunch of like segments that would fit the kind of like dimensions of it and like stapled under the wall, so I have like a layer of tarp on top of the concrete that's sealed. Hopefully, stuff doesn't get through there, but I think it eventually does. And then on top of that, what I decided to do for the flooring, because they just tear the hell out of the tarp. They're just walking on that. I bought these big, thick, like horse stall rubber mats for the floor. It's kind of like a gym mat, but I guess it's maybe like a little bit cheaper. You could buy like the tractor supply store, the farm stores, they sell big four by eight foot ones. And those things are, I mean, it really throws me back to like I don't know if this is like all hockey arenas, but it's just reminds me of them because I feel like it's like got the material that you like walk on with your skates. It's kind of like that. I'm guessing it's all of them, not just Midwest ones. So it was kind of really gave vibes like a hockey arena in their initial tent before the the turtle piss and shit smell kind of you know irradiated that area now. But laid those out, cut them to size. I also had no idea. It was interesting to learn, I was like, how the fuck like I was like reading, you can allegedly cut them, but I'm like, how? And I like struggled for a minute, like breaking razor blades. But I guess I figured out the strat is like you gotta like make an initial decision and then like fold this big ass mat and then like let it just kind of like stretch open, like stretch that thing open, and the wave of itself kind of starts pulling and you just kind of rub on it with the blade. So if you're ever cutting these, because I think they're like three-quarter inch mats. Uh that's you can do it, you just like gotta kind of stretch it apart if you don't want to like totally sh- I mean you definitely dole the blade really quick cutting it, but it's that is way less work than when I was trying to like just book in power through and slice that thing up, pack it up. If you kind of like slice once to get the initial cut and then fold it and kind of keep you know, tickling it with the razor, eventually, voila, you got that shit exactly how you want it. Although they're pretty heavy, so I ended up trying to find some like thinner things and weird like gym type yoga mat rollout things for the top parts, because I was like, I don't want I don't even know. Like each of those mats gotta be like at least 50 pounds, if not more, and like a few of them be the weight just adds up pretty quickly on this big platform they're on. So I was like, I don't want all that weight plus them as they get bigger, and then if you walk up there, I was like, this stuff is built pretty sturdy and it's got some sturdy supports, but as things get bigger, I don't, you know, I don't want anyone crashing through the goddamn floor. And it's also like kind of a pain in the move when you gotta clean around them, so less the better. And it seems to be to work it for the time being. They can get around on that, they got good grip. They got a little bit uh it's kind of like maybe the ramp had to be a little bit steeper to get the height that I wanted. So they seem to get up at first, but as they got bigger and then their nails kind of like slide on it, it's kind of hard to like kind of build like a ladder with rungs that they can kind of climb up. I mean just a ramp, but it's got more rungs they can kind of like put their paw on or paw foot, I guess you know. I don't know. Is there is there a term for reptile thing? Paw, just reptile hand, ript hand, I don't know what the hell. But just their their elephant stompers, I like that. The them turtle stompers, getting them in and getting traction on that, and that seems to work for the time being. But from there, they've been living lavishly in there. Seem to, I don't know, be living pretty good. I don't I don't think there's any uh uh big hiccups with that. Um I hope it lasts for a while, but things that I definitely need, like an upgrade. I guess the the one thing is I for sure need something that's got a drain for them because I piss so much and they keep pissing more as they get bigger. As you know, as they get bigger, they piss more and shit more. Everything goes up, unfortunately. And I kind of looked at like getting a drain installed, but that's kind of like expensive and maybe hard to do in the garage. But I think ultimately they need some like big old like garage thing with like probably just like a ramped concrete floor that they can crawl on directly. Um, that's hopefully not too rough. And with just a big old drain, so you can just hose that shit out. I think that would like be ideal. Because currently we got like a shot back so you can like suck up the piss that way, and it's also just it's it's pretty stanky, it's impressive. I don't I don't know what I mean. They really mostly just eat hay and graze on that and their pellets. Um but that I guess maybe it's like just turbo asparagus piss that they got out, but the hay that they eat. I forget what kind of I think it's like Timothy hay. I think that's uh I need to like look more. Or no. I think what I've been more buying is uh orchard grass, because that's another thing, like getting them it's not just there's not one size fits all for hay, there's like some things like alfalfa that are like maybe more common for like livestock, but um that shit is got more protein. Um so if you're trying to get your thing swole, uh I mean it's good for that for you know like horses with shit, uh hay for your horses, but not for your turtles, because they don't process well, I think they mostly just good with just milk and what they can out of fiber, like too much sugar or protein can be bad for their guts and their health. Like you don't want to give them too much fruit either, so you gotta make sure you get them the right grass. Um, because some of like the alfalfa ones, I actually really don't know what happens. I don't know if it's like hard on their like maybe kidneys. I really have no idea what turtle organe goes wrong, but I think it's like just trying to keep them what they were, you know, designed to be grubbing on is just probably for the best, not pushing it too much that way. The same with like fruits and sugary things. They don't, they're not sipping on pina coladas on their island. There are some things like redfoot tortoises that live in the Amazon. They do, I think naturally eat like a lot more fruits in the jungle. Although I have been to the Galapagos, and I think I guess I don't know if this is problematic, but I guess like guavas are invasive there. I guess more, I guess, is if it's problematic for the turtles' health, and I think that's become kind of like a staple of their diet. Um and that's definitely like something that's relatively sweet compared to just eating grass, but I think they grub it up. And also I think they amplify the problem of the guavas, because I guess an ecosystem is kind of cool. The big tortoises do a lot. I mean they trample stuff, so they kind of keep things open, like keep forests in check, but they also like spread trees because basically they're like uh intestines just ending up being like a uh whatever plant seed incubator that just swallow up the seeds and just kind of like gets you know broken down some of the shell and whatever and it germinates in their gut and when they shit it out, it's just you know a fresh little fertilizer starter pack for that seed to take off. And I think they use the the Aldabra ones on Mauritius, is that how you say it? Mauritius? Meridius, another island in Africa that so I think it has ebony wood. I don't know. It just reminds me of the Skyrim weapons. Um but I think it's I don't know what it looks like, these ebony trees that are, I guess maybe like an endangered tree, and they kind of wanted to like bring this island to like get these forests back. So I think they basically chopped all these trees down to make some, you know, someone had some ebony kink for furniture or whatnot. I don't know what it was used for, but they basically just dropped these island turtles off on the island, and I guess it worked way better than they expected. Like we had forests just springing up because of the turtles just eating the seeds and shitting them out, and these trees just take off. So that's cool. So if you you know want to build a forest on your island and don't want to do so much work planting trees, just plant a few and let out some tortoises, and as long as they can survive there. That's a cool thing about I guess their ecosystem impact. It's always pretty interesting the whole ecosystem in general, like how much effect like one thing can have on it. I guess like what do they call that? A keystone is that what it is? Or is that just the pipeline? I don't know. But you know, like the things that hold the whole ecosystems together. I don't know, examples. Is it like our wolves one? Maybe. Is there something with like sea urchins and otters or starfish? I have no idea. There's all sorts of things. You take out the bottom rum of like uh, you know, the house that Gars doll comes falling down, the the cup tower. Oh my gosh, did y'all ever have to do like the speed cup stacking? Because we had to do that in like gym class for whatever reason. And our gym teacher like really tried to sell like this is important, this is the pinnacle of hand-eye coordination. Like, she went on and on about it, like, you know, you really gotta be able to get this right, you gotta be able to move these cups just right. And uh I guess like allegedly, I never saw this, but she claimed that some shoddy or dude, I don't know, um, someone was the national speed stack cup professional, whatever world champion in high school, and then because of that, they just got an instant full ride ball scholarship to some college. Like he can stack cups, he can definitely make buckets, we can work with them. He can have them Kyrie handles instantly. Uh, that's at least what the coach thought if this actually happened. I'm not entirely sure. It seems like a long shot. Um, but I mean, I don't know that that would translate if you had absolutely zero ball knowledge. Didn't I feel you need like maybe you can get a full ride uh scholarship uh without elite ball knowledge if you got mediocre ball knowledge and you know speed scope scales, but I'm not quite sold on the the translation of talent there. But if you know maybe maybe it was LeBron, was he out there stacking cups in A Akron, Akron, Acorn, Ohio, wherever is that is that how we got so good? Um if if there's any you know uh players in the league that you know were former cup stackers that would like to you know let me know. I would appreciate that. I would I'd maybe I gotta get to stacking cups. Maybe that's I mean, think, you know, I might be a little past my prime for the league. Well, I mean in terms of getting I don't I don't think I got the the hoop skills. I just occasionally play uh like horse or pig with my ma and get my ass beat most of the time because she can, you know, I don't know if she can hoop, but I cannot at all. So she has a low uh a low bar to clear. Um but mm-hmm if I really lock in a gym class, I'd be, you know, Steph Curry V2. So I guess I can't I can't say for certain certain I maybe was you know too cynical and just shot myself in the foot there and you know ended my you know MBA prospects before they even began. So I guess moral historic is you know stack your cups in school, eat your veggies, and just make sure you just always lock in. Um but yeah. Although I feel like this was the same, I think I had this teacher for a health class, and Chaudi was like total headass, like told me like I think it was like things was just like the most basic ass like questions, and I was like so pissed at the time that she was like, it was like just it was like it was such a dumb like test that we had to do on like basic health stuff as like like sophomores juniors in high school. It was like daily hygiene habits that you should or it's like what you should you do to just have good hygiene, like something like absurdly like simple, and it's like brush your teeth, shower, um, wash your hands. And like she was like, nope that's not wrong because you didn't say daily. And I'm like, bitch, what? Are you kidding me? No. I was like, what do you what do you think we on here on that? I don't know. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say anything, never mind. We'll cut myself off before I say anything problematic, but uh yeah, that was interesting, interesting times. Do they still do is that even a thing anymore? Because I feel like I did remember seeing those, like you could buy uh like the kits of these, I don't know, like I feel like the the profit on that honestly had to be like good markup because it's like just glorified solo cups, maybe like a little bit reinforced, but just you know, slap a elite cup logo on there. Um and you know, sell it for thousand percent markup. Go on that that big pharma grindset for you know kids trying to make the league through stacking cups. Maybe maybe that's the big next big business venture that I should, you know, get some VC money for, you know, no more Chat GPT rappers. Uh we're just gonna be hustling speed cups for you know aspiring uh young ball players. I don't know. I don't know the big VC firms, but I might have to have to make some calls. Um next time, you know, we're gonna be the uh I don't even know. I don't even know what good example of a big VC come up, you know, or like founders, I guess. The next Uber, Uber Speed Cup to get to the league guaranteed or your money back. I don't know. We'll get we got some marketing work to do. We'll we'll we'll refin the pitch. Um coming to Walmart near you, make sure you get yours soon. Um I'm sure they're you you might not find them on the shelves, and that's not because they're not there, it's because they're just flying off the shelves before you can get them. So if you see them, you but you better grab them while they're hot, okay? I'm just you know kind of giving you some inside knowledge, you know, get your uh get them while the gidding's good while you can, I guess. But yeah, we'll have to get back to the drawing board on that one and you know get that shit rolled out and start collecting the green and hopefully you can tell me I'll make it to the league and you can thank me later. Uh but I think I think that was a a good another good day in the books, another, you know, preventative crash out episode. Um I guess do this again next week. Uh thank you all for tuning in. It's been a wild ride. Um and this ride will continue, hopefully off a a stack cup stacking. Cup stack cup, that's the game. The like the drinking game. I don't know what the speed stacking is. The I don't know. Off that fortune. But uh yeah, so next big come up. And with that, we out of here. Peace peace.